My interview with Chefs Norma Listman & Saqib Keval
In this episode I chat with Chefs Norma Listman & Saqib Keval about their lamb barbacoa recipe, cooking with inspiration from many cultures and doing so from a place of careful thought and intention.
I first met Chef Saqib Keval when he started coming into my restaurant, Juhu Beach Club, fairly regularly about a decade ago. Always grinning ear to ear, his enthusiasm and joy were/are so infectious. We immediately seemed to share a lot in common bonding about our immigrant experiences, both having familial ties in East Africa and social justice being integral to our work. Saqib was one of the founders of People’s Kitchen Collective along with Jocelyn Jackson and Sita Bhaumik, an organization working at the intersection of art and activism as a food-centered political education project.
I started hearing about Chef Norma Listman before we met because so many mutuals kept assuming we knew each other. We finally met at a friend’s wedding she was cooking the meal for, so it was hugs from day one. And it was one of the BEST wedding dinners I have ever had.
Getting to watch these two lovely folks from afar, that I have known separately, join each other in marriage, successful restaurant businesses and now with a little one has been such a joy. Getting to eat at both of their restaurants in Mexico City, one of my fav travel destinations, Masala y Maiz and Marigold was the highlight of our last trip to CDMX. We share a lot in common in terms of how we approach creating dishes with inspiration from several cultures which you can hear more about in our conversation.
Their lamb barbacoa is a beautiful example of melding cultures with careful thought and care for the different cuisines. The recipe is for a whole lamb, which I think is the perfect center piece for a party with a group of folks you love. I halved the recipe to make it bit more manageable and it still yielded a significant amount for a small crowd, especially when you add all the fixings, etc. We ended up throwing a small party to share the lamb barbacoa with our friends, and at least one guest declared it to be “The BEST barbacoa” they have ever eaten.
Masala y Maiz Lamb Barbacoa
Yes, this dish takes multiple days of preparation, and yes it has A LOT going on. These are complicated flavors and complicated times. Put some of that good music on and get to work. You will be making something filled with love and labor to share with your community. Take care in toasting the whole spices so you don’t burn them. You can grind the whole spices using a cleaned coffee grinder or a mortar/pestle until it becomes a fine powder. Use a coarser salt (never table salt and nothing iodized) in preparing this dish. Serve your barbacoa alongside steaming hot consome, finely chopped onions, radishes, cilantro and of course fresh warm corn tortillas wrapped in a cloth to keep them from getting cold and drying out. Start your preparation on Thursday so you can enjoy this a classic Sunday morning breakfast to share with the people you care for. - Chefs Norma Listman & Saqib Keval
Lamb Barbacoa Masala & Maiz
Total Prep Time: 3-4 days
Serves: 8
5 1/2 kg (~12lbs) young lamb (leg, loin and neck, bones included)
Salt to taste
Masala
1 tablespoon fennel seeds
2 tablespoons cumin seeds
2 whole black cardamom pods
1 tablespoon green cardamom seeds
2 teaspoons yellow mustard seeds
1 1/2 tablespoons coriander seeds
5cm cinnamon stalk
1 1/2 tablespoons fenugreek
2 whole star anise pieces
2 dry banana leaves
Adobo
2 black chilhuachle chiles
4 guajillo chiles
3 arbol chiles
5 roma tomatoes
5 garlic cloves
2 bay leaves
1 cup virgin olive oil
3 white onions, chopped into medium-sized cubes
3 tablespoons peeled fresh turmeric, finely chopped
3 tablespoons peeled fresh gigner, finely chopped
1/2 cup tamarind puree
3 tablespoons quince puree
1/2 cup pineapple or apple cider vinegar
4 tablespoons sea salt
Consome
Salt to taste
4 ripe tomatoes
2 chile de arbol
3 liters of water
To Serve
1/2ed limes
1/4er radishes
1 white onion, finely diced
1 bunch cilantro, chopped
Putting the barbacoa together
3 banana leaves, fresh
1 large maguey leaf, roasted or boiled until flexible
7 liters of water, approximately, dpending on the size of the pot
24-36 tortillas to serve
1. Two nights before, score & salt the lamb entirely, and let sit in the refrigerator
Make the masala, toast each spice separately, being careful not to burn them, and then grind them in a mortar or blender until a homogenous powder is formed.
Make the adobo. In a sauce pot, boil the chiles, the tomatoes, the garlic and the bay leaves until the chiles are soft to the touch. Drain the chiles, remove the stems. Reserve and save the broth. In a frying pan, on a low heat, saute the onion, turmeric and ginger in olive oil. When the onion is translucent, add the tamarind puree, quince, vinegar and salt. Cook for 10 more minutes, then let cool. Once everything is at room temperature, blend the masala, chiles and saute using a little of the broth the chiles were cooked in. The consistency should be thick and velvety.
Make the barbacoa. Generously cover the meat with the adobo and avocado leaves, but keep one cup of adobo for later. Let sit for 24-48 hours.
Remove the thorns from the maguey leaf with the help of a thick, sharp knife and pair of gloves: start at the base and work towards the point. Then, remove the rib that runs from the base to a little beyond the middle. In a large saucepan, set the water to boil. Soak the leaf. It’ll be ready when they’re malleable and the color has changed to a dark dull green.
Adobo marinated lamb goes in pot. Line and fully seal lamb in leaves. In a wide, deep and high-heat resistant pot (like a dutch oven), place the leaf lengthwise. The points that remain outside the pan will be used to cover it later. Arrange on banana leaf at a time to fully cover the bottom and spill over the sides. The goal here is to create a completely sealed pouch of leaves that you will cook your barbacoa in. Place the meat in the center of the banana leaves, layering the meat with the avocado leaves. Add the cup of adobo that was left. Cover the meat with the banana leaves, if there are uncovered corners, grab an extra piece of banana leaf and cover any holes, making sure no meat is left uncovered. Finally use the excess parts of the maguey to wrap around the banana leaf packet. Pour as much water as your pot will fit around your barbacoa packet. Cover tightly with foil (3 layers) to make it air tight and keep the steam from leaving. Sometimes you can place a sheet tray over and place a brick on top.
Bake at 300°F for 2 hours, then raise the temperature to 450°F for 2 more hours, then lower to 250°F for 4 final hours. (Note from Preeti: If you halve the amount of lamb it may be done sooner, check the meat after 2 hours at 250°F) It is important to check the water level and make sure it does not evaporate. You can add water as needed (this will later turn into your consome).
Fully cooked lamb in braising liquid. Straining braising liquid. Boiling consome with aromatics Make the consome. Once the barbacoa is ready, separate the bones from the meat and place them in a deep stock pot. Place the leftover liquid from the barbacoa in the pot, if there is anything stuck to your pot, deglaze it and add it to the stock pot. Add 3 liters of water, the tomatoes cut in half, the chiles and salt. Strain and serve warm along with your barbacoa.
Reserve about 1/2 of the consome in case you need to reheat your barbacoa. You always want barbacoa to be moist and warm.
You can find Chefs Norma Listman & Saqib Keval at their restaurants Masala y Maiz and Marigold.